Curse

Mark Nevermiss · Jan 08, 2008, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

lulz wut? Someone never made it to the Southern Shiverpeak missions I see

Thunderhead keep mission : we are attacked by both the stonesummit and the white mantle.

Evennia captured by the White Mantle and ended up in the Shiverpeaks, why?

If the White Mantle and the Stone Summit were not exactly allies, they were simply fighting a common enemy - us.

mazey vorstagg · Jan 08, 2008, 01:27 PM // 13:27

In Ice Caves of Sorrow we see the White Mantel and Mursatt rip through squads of stone summit. They are 100% enemies.

Free Runner · Jan 08, 2008, 04:31 PM // 16:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss

Thunderhead keep mission : we are attacked by both the stonesummit and the white mantle.

Evennia captured by the White Mantle and ended up in the Shiverpeaks, why?

If the White Mantle and the Stone Summit were not exactly allies, they were simply fighting a common enemy - us.

In Thunderhead Keep you never see the Summit allied with the Mantle - you only see 2 forces attacking the same location. Ice Caves shows the Mantle and Mursaat attacking the Stone Summit with siege weapons.

Mark Nevermiss · Jan 08, 2008, 07:53 PM // 19:53

Yea its true. I all but forgot about that mission, if I am not mistaken tho the Stonesummit use the siege weapons on the Mursaat, isnt it?

Fangclaw · Jan 10, 2008, 09:08 PM // 21:08

So, there are two possibilities:

-The Charr crossed the Great Northern Wall & Ascalon right after The Searing before the Ascalonians could regroup, crossed the rather green lands in between the Southern Shiverpeaks and the Crystal Desert and made it to Orr, but most of them died in The Cataclysm (or not).

-After destroying Ascalon in The Searing, they marched to Kryta through the Far Shiverpeaks and The Verdant Cascades, where they set base and nearly claimed victory. The bulk of their forces marched to Orr while some stayed behind to keep Kryta under their sway. Thats when Saul D'Alessio showed up and destroyed the guarding Charr with help from the Mursaat. The rest (maybe not all) of the invasion force was destroyed in the Cataclysm.

Free Runner · Jan 10, 2008, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss

Yea its true. I all but forgot about that mission, if I am not mistaken tho the Stonesummit use the siege weapons on the Mursaat, isnt it?

I believe its a siege war. The Summit fire at the Mantle/Mursaat and us while the Mantle are fireing at the Summit.

Sophitia Leafblade · Feb 11, 2008, 02:24 PM // 14:24

Another option is that the Charr build a mighty Armada of ships to the east of their kingdom (an area not on the current map) and sailed down past Elona and then around and up to Orr .

From looking at the maps and knowing that the Crystal Dessert was once a sea that separated Orr and Elona from tryia its logical to assume that there is another Ocean just off the right hand side of the map

This may not be the method they took but its certainly a possibility to consider

Born to Mes · Feb 11, 2008, 05:43 PM // 17:43

There's an entrance to the hall of heroes in occupied Charr lands. There is also an entrance to the hall of heroes in the the tomb of the primeval kings which is in the desert. The Charr could have easily gone in one way and out the other. As I am sure we are all aware the entrance in the tomes was corrupted by the Darkness. The Darkness is a servant of Menzies and Menzies is helping out Abbadon. So it could be entirely possible that the Darkness made it possible for the Charr to travel from the entrance in their territory to the entrance in the tomes of the primeval kings. From there they could have easily traveled to Orr.

They might not have even gone through Ascalon, they could have gone around it via the eastern frontier. That would be the easiest way to go. Through the chaos of the Searing they could have easily slipped through, even in large numbers. To further add to the confusion a large number of Charr could have entered through the Breach, take several prisoners and engage in guerrilla tactics to take attention away from the eastern frontier. Although with the near complete absence of Charr south of the wall, that would suggest that the Ascalon Army managed to regain some control and only have to deal with the occasional raiding party that makes it through the breach or comes from the eastern frontier.

Another possibility is that they traveled down the beaches on the western side of the shiverpeaks. Although there is little evidence other than it looks like a viable way that they might have gone.

Eldin · Feb 11, 2008, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss

Well Blood Washes Blood is another can of worms. First the Charr mysteriously appear in the heart of Norn land skipping zones controlled by the Stone Summit, the allies of the their ex-enemies: the White Mantle. Then they show so much disregard for the war-like Norn.

The Stone Summit allies of the White Mantle? WHA?!?! Please, play the Southern Shiverpeak missions from Prophecies over again. It's all out war.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Free Runner

There is a bridge in Old Ascalon that has been destroyed by the searing. It looks like it was a bridge heading towards the Crystal Desert mountains. So there are probably a few more passages that the Warband heading to Orr took.

Ah, I've heard mentions of this several times, even people claiming it can be seen from Regent Valley. Care to elaborate?

Gmr Leon · Feb 13, 2008, 11:58 PM // 23:58

You guys are still stuck on this? I am not one to advise using Occam's Razor on everything, but this is one of those cases where it's the best thing to do.

When the Charr attacked Ascalon alongside the Searing the Ascalonians were plunged into chaos. The military was in shambles and people were dying left and right, as a result the Great Northern Wall is left pretty much vulnerable.

The Charr take advantage of this, blitzkrieg through Ascalon leaving only a few troops behind and make their way over the Blazeridge Mountains. For those that don't know, it's the southern mountain range at the bottom of Ascalon. Once over the Blazeridge Mountains they make their way through the Crystal Desert to Orr, where they basically cut through their troops like butter.

As they're at the gates to Arah or getting there, Vizier Khilbron goes beneath Arah and reads the forbidden scroll triggering the Cataclysm which pretty much destroys Orr and the invading Charr forces.

To put it simply:
Blitzkrieg through Ascalon, go over mountains, through the Crystal Desert, and trigger the blowing up of Orr.

They have yet to show any knowledge of shipbuilding at all. So any sea voyages are pretty much out of the question working with what we're given. The White Mantle did exist during the time of the Searing as the Charr seem to have attacked both Kryta and Ascalon simultaneously.

Kryta was on the verge of falling to the Charr until Saul's miraculous defeat of them and the pushing of their forces back. The BMP mission associated with him is clearly set in the time after the Charr had been pushed back thus they are somewhere north of Kryta. Remember, Saul was "ambushed and killed" by the Charr while behind enemy lines as his network of spies failed him that day.

I hope I don't come off as an arrogant jerk, but this isn't even the tip of Tyria's mysteries especially with the additions to the lore over the years.

Eldin · Feb 20, 2008, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Sorry Leon, we KNOW they just blazed through Ascalon whilst their people were preoccupied and broken.

We want to know how they got over the mountains and weren't eaten by Sand Wurms.

Gmr Leon · Feb 20, 2008, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Ah, yes, well..That's a better thing to discuss. Even I'm still stuck on that one.

Free Runner · Feb 20, 2008, 07:52 AM // 07:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eldin

Ah, I've heard mentions of this several times, even people claiming it can be seen from Regent Valley. Care to elaborate?

I dont really have time to get a screenshot now but i'll take one and upload it later. It is indeed in Regent Valley on the south side of it.

Longasc · Feb 20, 2008, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avai

The basic assumptions are

1.) charr armies passing through the southern mountain ranges of the Ascalon region

This could be possible. Then they followed the green strip to Orr

2.) Charr using ships to go to Orr

Rather unlikely, they could have followed the coastline and would not have needed ships. They might have ignored the crystal desert as it was just a desert and they might have known of a rich and fertile kingdom named "Orr" to the east and headed straight for it

The Charr are indeed like the mongols. They invaded Ascalon, Kryta, Orr... basically, almost the whole world...^^

Azael Durge · Feb 20, 2008, 12:32 PM // 12:32

I wish i could see Orr as it was, temperal tonics anyone?, seems unlikely that they would have gone to all this trouble to get there. Has anyone ever thought that they didnt? Maybe the Vizier just blew it up and claimed it was due to the Charr.

However i'd still love to visit this Atlantean style city.

draxynnic · Feb 20, 2008, 02:15 PM // 14:15

The Charr weren't doing it (just) for land. They see humanity as an infestation, the race responsible for the fall of their empire and their greatest enemies. They were looking to wipe out all of humanity that they could get within reach, getting more land was just an added perk.

If it wasn't for the Crystal Desert, they'd probably have gone for Elona as well.

Gmr Leon · Feb 20, 2008, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Actually, the Charr's war with Ascalon, is completely about land. Originally all of what we know of Ascalon was within Charr control, the humans pushed them out of it.

Other than that, yes, they pretty much do hate humanity. Of course there are some who hate it to a lesser degree..

Jakz0r · Feb 21, 2008, 12:17 AM // 00:17

What I want to know is, where are the alive Orrians.

I wish we could go to Orr..if I had one wish for this game other and GW:Utopia it would be explorable Orr.

draxynnic · Feb 21, 2008, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by GmrLeon

Actually, the Charr's war with Ascalon, is completely about land. Originally all of what we know of Ascalon was within Charr control, the humans pushed them out of it.

Other than that, yes, they pretty much do hate humanity. Of course there are some who hate it to a lesser degree..

Yes and no. Consider that they pretty much destroyed the land in question - including some that was already under their control - to do so.

It's become much more than a question of land. The Charr even took the resort of worshipping 'gods' - where previously the Charr had considered any creature greater than them as a threat to be destroyed and nothing else - if that would help them defeat the humans. It may have started as being about land, but now it's personal... okay, better make that racial. But the sentiment still stands - the objective of the Charr during the Searing wasn't to capture land (even that that had been lost in the founding of Ascalon) but the death or enslavement of every human on the continent. That they'd then get all the land of Kryta and Orr if they'd succeeded - and Ascalon when it recovered - was an added bonus. It actually might even have been interesting to see how much of that they would have been able to keep afterwards.

Eldin · Feb 21, 2008, 03:04 AM // 03:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jakz0r

What I want to know is, where are the alive Orrians.

I wish we could go to Orr..if I had one wish for this game other and GW:Utopia it would be explorable Orr.

Yeah, where are they? I'm sure a fair amount were outside Orr when it went kaplooie, at least as many as there are Krytans in Ascalon (fair amount) and Canthans in Kryta (fair amount).